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> Charges for Ice Rescues
crappiehappy
Posted: Mar 09, 2018 - 10:16 pm


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QUOTE (JAYG79 @ Mar 08, 2018 - 03:50 pm)
This happened to a guy on scugog 2 years ago. They charged him over 4 grand to rescue him after warnings were posted the ice wasn't safe. Imo it's a good thing hit them financially sad that money has to be the voice of reason over common sense.

It's a no brainer for the guy's life..
He should gladly pay the 4k..

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longfish
Posted: Mar 09, 2018 - 10:39 pm


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QUOTE (ldub @ Mar 09, 2018 - 06:37 pm)
Anytime someone needs assistance it should be provided free of charge period. If there is an illegal act involved charges should be laid period, pretty simple.

X2

Next they will charge you for a car accident if police or fire show up or ambulance....yes going out on the ice is a risk but so is driving on today's highways.

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Andy14
Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 08:58 am


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Anyone who states this is a simple matter or giving very different examples saying it's the same thing is, to me being a little too "black and white" and not willing to realize that reality vs theory are 2 different things.
Ice fishermen are of sound mind (usually) and know these warnings and penalties in advance.
Ice fishing is more and more popular hence the chances of senceless accidents raise.....We, in my opinion, should not criticize townships for making responsible decisions trying to disuede people from putting themselves and rescuers in sticky situations.
I'm definitly not saying the norm should be "charging people to be saved" in any situation.... I'm saying that I understand there are acceptions to rules and to me, this is one of them.

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Andy14
Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 09:05 am


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For the record I definitly get on the ice after warnings are issues, take all the precations I can, expect to go through and try to be ready if it happens.......I'm just saying that I won't argue with people trying to just keep us off ice that is sketchy....

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baitcaster34
Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 09:25 am


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I've seen this topic so much this week and even had some debates about this with people online. There is a precedent set in law if they decided to really start enforcing this bylaw. One that a lot have already stated, at what point who is responsible for their wrong decisions when warnings are in place and you need first responders to help. Remember it's the legal precedent it sets. Example the tragedy on the grand river..... should she be on the line for that rescue and recovery, there were warning signs up let alone the news coverage or simply the rushing water. I don't believe anyone should be on the line for a rescue because it could bleed into so many municipalities and all of a sudden we have semi privatized first responders lol. Further more ice never heard of someone getting charged when the military/ coast guard plane is look for boats in the spring, fall, summer.

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crappiehappy
Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 04:28 pm


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QUOTE (baitcaster34 @ Mar 10, 2018 - 09:25 am)
I've seen this topic so much this week and even had some debates about this with people online. There is a precedent set in law if they decided to really start enforcing this bylaw. One that a lot have already stated, at what point who is responsible for their wrong decisions when warnings are in place and you need first responders to help. Remember it's the legal precedent it sets. Example the tragedy on the grand river..... should she be on the line for that rescue and recovery, there were warning signs up let alone the news coverage or simply the rushing water. I don't believe anyone should be on the line for a rescue because it could bleed into so many municipalities and all of a sudden we have semi privatized first responders lol. Further more ice never heard of someone getting charged when the military/ coast guard plane is look for boats in the spring, fall, summer.

That little boy that lost his life was terrible..
There's no question that they should rescue the boy and mother...

If someone is negligent..they still need to be rescued..
Charge or no charge... I'm giving everyone involved in my rescue a
1k tip..

This post has been edited by crappiehappy on Mar 10, 2018 - 04:31 pm

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simcoeguy
Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 05:49 pm


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There are times when (ie off Rayners road last year) someone onshore sees someone out there fishing when obviously he's fine just sitting fishing. Person on shore thinks its unsafe so calls 911. Why should he pay? just this past week all 3 services fire police ambulance sirens on went to an "ice rescue" in south Keswick. We watched the guy walking back wet from waist down but fine. He didn t call so who did? Who pays? Don't our taxes cover these incidents? And a good way to put their training to a workout. Hate to see someone in trouble but they are accidents. No one tries to fall through and drown.. My 2 cents worth. Oh.. and I may walk out Monday for a few perch..

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ldub
Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 06:42 pm


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QUOTE (simcoeguy @ Mar 10, 2018 - 05:49 pm)
There are times when (ie off Rayners road last year) someone onshore sees someone out there fishing when obviously he's fine just sitting fishing. Person on shore thinks its unsafe so calls 911. Why should he pay? just this past week all 3 services fire police ambulance sirens on went to an "ice rescue" in south Keswick. We watched the guy walking back wet from waist down but fine. He didn t call so who did? Who pays? Don't our taxes cover these incidents? And a good way to put their training to a workout. Hate to see someone in trouble but they are accidents. No one tries to fall through and drown.. My 2 cents worth. Oh.. and I may walk out Monday for a few perch..

Couldn't agree more. As far as putting the rescue services at risk, they asses the situation and make the call as to weather they can make the rescue. Nobody purposely goes out intending to fall through the ice.

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Pond
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 09:03 am


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I can see the validity in both sides of the issue but I will just add something that I have not seen considered in this thread.
How would one feel if responders could not attend to a loved one in distress be it house fire, car accident, pregnancy,medical or any other emergency because the responders are out dragging some dough-head out of the water?
JMO

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king killer
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 09:18 am


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It should be covered. I mean seriously to worry about a couple grand the way our governments spends??

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fishnrod24
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 10:24 am


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Who pays for the MNR to be rescued. Walked many klm last weekend not because I wanted to but because I chose to leave my sled and bike at home to be safe. Sitting in my hut a klm.from shore and sure enough 5 sleds pull up near my hut and guess who MNR. So I asked him what are u guys doing on the lake today with sleds, he said lots of Ice!! Then they proceed away driving straight over a large Crack. Lol

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kingphoenix
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 12:43 pm


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QUOTE (Pond @ Mar 13, 2018 - 09:03 am)
I can see the validity in both sides of the issue but I will just add something that I have not seen considered in this thread.
How would one feel if responders could not attend to a loved one in distress be it house fire, car accident, pregnancy,medical or any other emergency because the responders are out dragging some dough-head out of the water?
JMO

Same could be said first responders who are busy responding to a fire where the owner didnt clean their chimney/left the oven on/tried to deep fry a turkey inside or attending an accident with a drunk driver.


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Longshank
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 12:55 pm


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QUOTE (kingphoenix @ Mar 13, 2018 - 12:43 pm)
QUOTE (Pond @ Mar 13, 2018 - 09:03 am)
I can see the validity in both sides of the issue but I will just add something that I have not seen considered in this thread.
How would one feel if responders could not attend to a loved one in distress be it house fire, car accident, pregnancy,medical or any other emergency because the responders are out dragging some dough-head out of the water?
JMO

Same could be said first responders who are busy responding to a fire where the owner didnt clean their chimney/left the oven on/tried to deep fry a turkey inside or attending an accident with a drunk driver.

Exactly.....

let the fire dept. stay on land and do what they are trained to do.

you don't need a fire engine plus more vehicles for a possible ice rescue. Again going back to that scenario on Scugog a few winters ago to help the one guy some 50 feet from shore

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Disco
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 01:09 pm


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I can also see both sides of the arguement.

Emergency services should be for all emergencies. I think the point of the fines for these emergencies through the ice is to limit the danger to the emergency responders and to limit the amount of unwise decisions to go out on unsafe ice.

Correct me if I am wrong but these fines are in effect only if an unsafe ice advisory is in place.

Most emergencies are not foreseen circumstances and there for no thought to danger is incurred.

With thin melting ice we all consider if we should go or not even against the advisory. I believe this is the contention of these municipal fines. Warnings are in place and we ignore them putting emergency responders in danger despite our intentional ignorance of the warnings.

We can argue all day one way or the other and many view points are valid but one fact remains. These fines exist and we know about them. If we choose to ignore warnings and do have to be rescued we do not have the right to complain about being fined as we know those conditions and possibility for fines existed before we went out.

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Longshank
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 01:33 pm


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Disco. agree with most of what you say.

However, Simcoe is a large water body and ice varies in different sections of the lake. always.

A warning may be issued that is lake wide, yet still plenty of ice in certain locations

so a bit of a conundrum

I am heading up for Wed and Thursday and there is plenty of good ice there....while others have been stating for weeks now to stay off. That is fine as I would not attempt certain areas of the lake, but feel quite comfortable where I am going

this will never be quite resolved imo.

in the end I will still stick with earlier reply,,,no charges for rescues if required

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