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> Charges for Ice Rescues
Knuguy
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 03:29 pm


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We should all wait until the powers that be tell us it's safe!!

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nuzpaper
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 04:02 pm


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Do they charge for hikers, back country skiers or people on sleds running avalanche territory that need help? Pretty sure they don't

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Disco
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 04:07 pm


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I do see it both ways as stated.

Itís just my philosophical way of thinking that I choose to live within this Provence so by default I have chosen to live by its laws. My only choices would be to fight for change or to move.

This law was enacted after one specific instance where a lot of people were rescued at once and one specific gentleman was rescued three times and continued to go out on unsafe ice. I hate my tax dollars going toward someone who just say F it and goes because there is no reprocussion to their actions when being continuously rescued.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012/03/14..._on_matter.html

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montstev
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 04:16 pm


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Too bad if they are charged to be rescued! What about the firefighters, probably volunteers that risk their lives to protect someone who hasn't the sense to wait until next weekend, or pack away his ice auger until next year.

My son was a firefighter who helped rescue fishermen froma pan of ice that broke from the main ice of Kempenfelt Bay a few years ago when the main body of the lake was wide open. Still, people insisted on fishing near open water. One idiot had even been rescued just a week or two before.

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ldub
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 04:22 pm


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I have and always will strongly disagree with us all suffering, because of careless actions of a few. Many rule/law makers just sit in the bush and wait for that one incident to justify their rule or law they wish to put in place affecting everyone, that's BS imo. Too add to this there is often other motivations involved ;Beyond everybody's safety.

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ldub
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 04:26 pm


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QUOTE (montstev @ Mar 13, 2018 - 04:16 pm)
Too bad if they are charged to be rescued! What about the firefighters, probably volunteers that risk their lives to protect someone who hasn't the sense to wait until next weekend, or pack away his ice auger until next year.

My son was a firefighter who helped rescue fishermen froma pan of ice that broke from the main ice of Kempenfelt Bay a few years ago when the main body of the lake was wide open. Still, people insisted on fishing near open water. One idiot had even been rescued just a week or two before.

Surely in extreme cases there would be ways to fine or charge, extremely careless individuals.

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Miha
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 04:53 pm


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QUOTE (montstev @ Mar 13, 2018 - 04:16 pm)
Too bad if they are charged to be rescued! What about the firefighters, probably volunteers that risk their lives to protect someone who hasn't the sense to wait until next weekend, or pack away his ice auger until next year.


Please, don't use this one. Emergency response personal is paid to do exactly that: to risk their lives, when necessary. It's just a job description. If somebody can't stomach the job he/she shouldn't have joined.

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Archiero
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 06:10 pm


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QUOTE (fishnrod24 @ Mar 13, 2018 - 12:24 pm)
Who pays for the MNR to be rescued. Walked many klm last weekend not because I wanted to but because I chose to leave my sled and bike at home to be safe. Sitting in my hut a klm.from shore and sure enough 5 sleds pull up near my hut and guess who MNR. So I asked him what are u guys doing on the lake today with sleds, he said lots of Ice!!  Then they proceed away driving straight over a large Crack. Lol

I was going to post the same thing. I'm a walker, and a very cautious one at that. I think that at some point it does get to a point where people really push the boundaries of what is "safe" and I think in those situations absolutely fines/charges should be in place to deter people to protect them as well as responders......However, when I hear the YRP (or any police/media source) say the ice is "sketchy" and to "stay off" as a blanket statement throughout the winter, I find it really strange then that the MNR is out there on there sleds (5 of them out last Saturday checking licences). If government officials are saying ice is unsafe and stay off or be fined, then government officials should not be out on the ice, especially driving machinery. Two totally different messages being delivered. Just my 2 cents.

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ldub
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 07:11 pm


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Hence my point about the warnings having very little to do with safety.

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Knuguy
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 07:16 pm


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I saw a pretty clueless statement put out by YRP earlier this year. Clearly didn't know much about lake ice.

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miro
Posted: Mar 13, 2018 - 07:17 pm


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No ice is safe ice at any time of the season. Wait till next weekend? Be extra cautious ? Was there one day this season that a warning wasn't put in place? Conditions change by the day, sometimes by the hour. Do you charge a person on a snowmobile who breaks down or gets stranded crossing the lake ? How about if a pressure crack opens up at Johnson Beach on a Saturday afternoon in mid February and a 100 guys get stranded. Do you charge them for a ice rescue ? If you talk to most people who don't ice fish, they think were all a bunch of crazy's and we should all be charged to the max if anything happens out there. Sorry Im an ice fisherman, I don't believe in having to pay for any ice rescue.

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Youngknight
Posted: Mar 14, 2018 - 06:37 am


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QUOTE (Miha @ Mar 13, 2018 - 04:53 pm)
QUOTE (montstev @ Mar 13, 2018 - 04:16 pm)
Too bad if they are charged to be rescued! What about the firefighters, probably volunteers that risk their lives to protect someone who hasn't the sense to wait until next weekend, or pack away his ice auger until next year.


Please, don't use this one. Emergency response personal is paid to do exactly that: to risk their lives, when necessary. It's just a job description. If somebody can't stomach the job he/she shouldn't have joined.

As a volunteer firefighter with ice rescue training (not Simcoe area) I will do a lot to save someone's life regardless of how stupid they are in getting themselves into a preventable situation and a situation that most ppl with half a brain would avoid. I also disagree with fines of charge for service unless ppl are being really stupid...ie having to be rescued 3 times like someone was. Where do we draw the line? Perhaps smokers should not have their health care covered for illnesses associated with smoking ( warnings on every pack and common knowledge).

Having said all that the attitude that putting responders at significant risk because some idiot makes a stupid decision as not being a consideration because it is in the job description and if u don't have the stomach for it u shouldn't have joined boils my blood. putting ourselves at risk is in the job description but my gosh what an arrogant ill-informed and irresponsible attitude.

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Miha
Posted: Mar 14, 2018 - 04:19 pm


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QUOTE (Youngknight @ Mar 14, 2018 - 06:37 am)
Having said all that the attitude that putting responders at significant risk because some idiot makes a stupid decision as not being a consideration because it is in the job description and if u don't have the stomach for it u shouldn't have joined boils my blood. putting ourselves at risk is in the job description but my gosh what an arrogant ill-informed and irresponsible attitude.

I apologize for raising your blood temperature above the boiling point, but could you please kindly explain what exactly is arrogant or/and ill-informed and/or irresponcible in my post, exactly?
Isn't it a job description of emergency response personnel to risk their life in the line of duty?
Aren't emergency responders getting paid?
Is a person who is afraid to risk his/her life to save somebody actually fit to work as firefighter or police officer?
Did I condone or excuse any kind of stupid decision on the ice or anywhere?

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Youngknight
Posted: Mar 14, 2018 - 10:04 pm


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In answer to your question I will do some point form. Party because it is a pain typing on my tablet.
1. Many firefighters who do the rescuing around many lakes are not from Barrie which has a paid dept...most other communities are volunteers who might get paid but not a lot.
2. Paid or not we do what we can to help anyone and everyone but it based on money...well certainly not volunteers...most communities in the province are served by volunteers.
3. But it has a lot more than just having the stomach for it. At the end of the day we all need to come home to our own families and as an officer I need to ensure that my men and I get to come home. We accept rusk but your commit conveys a cavalier attitude about risk...and boil it down to we get paid (or not) but nobody pays us enough to die. Make no mistake our motto is we will risk a lot to save a lot... however just because we will do this doesn't mean our safety is almost dismissed because we get paid..( again or not). Me and my men...and every other dept have the stomach for the job but if the risk is unreasonable I will stop my men as will every other officer in north amaerica that know what they are doing. Folks may not like to hear that but at some point...sorry...we didn't put you in this situation...you did....we aren't going to take an undue risk and leave our kids orphaned because of your need to make bad decisions.
4. It isn't the rescue personnel that are in charge on - pay for rescue policies. Your comment makes it sound like it is because we don't have the stones for the job. As I said... I don't agree with it but to question these people's bravery because of a municipalit's decision is ill informed and highly inappropriate.

Stuff happens and ppl make mistakes and we accept that and do everything we can do to help. There are some that really take stupid risks...you know the first guy on the lake when only 2 inches of ice, ignores the main warming after heavy rains and melts...like that guy rescued 3 times...again we will risk our own lives to help but it really sucks that such stupidity puts our lives at risk...we have our own families to go home to just like the person who we are trying to help go home to theirs. An attitude of...hey you get paid you are automatically expected to naturally accept that you might die because of the decision of a reckless moron and if you don't you are a coward and should do some different.

Again, I disagree with the pay for service policies. Be safe everyone and accept that rescuers have a right to safety as well even though we are entitled to less safety than every other worker in Ontario...except for military...ie the green safety regulations don't apply to much of what we do.

Btw...I failed at my point form didn't I?

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poidy
Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 11:09 am


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I liked to know what the courts say?

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