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> Atlantic Salmon Stocking Fiasco, Great Lakes Angler Magazine Article
Longshank
Posted: Dec 17, 2017 - 12:37 am


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QUOTE (Disco @ Dec 15, 2017 - 05:21 pm)
As stated by Rich the off shoot of the program that helps all species is the stream rehab. Without the efforts to make the rivers better for the Atlantic program our rivers would be worse off than they are. I donít agree with continuing the Atlantic program in it current form but if the only way to help our rivers is to consintrate on restoring a native species then that seems to be the only positive.

It seems non native species take a complete back seat for our MNR and if we only have programs for non native species I could see our MNR allowing those species to collapse all together.

As per usual government fishery programs are more about beaurocrats and their needs than the needs of the fishery.

What/ are u talking native or non native species cuase your comments make no sense. no ofense

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Disco
Posted: Dec 18, 2017 - 07:53 am


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Atlantic salmon are/were a native species to our rivers. Non native species Steelhead/Pacific salmon are non native.

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Richard S
Posted: Dec 18, 2017 - 11:21 am


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Technically the Atlantic's the MNR and OFAH are stocking are non native. The Atlantic's that were "native" to lake Ontario went extinct in the late 1800's. Another reason they are having a hard time getting a self sustaining population is because the original strain took thousands of years to adapt to living in fresh water, or lake Ontario to be more specific. I personally believe that its going to take a hell of alot more time to get a self sustaining population and one we wont see in our lifetime.

Rich.

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Longshank
Posted: Dec 18, 2017 - 02:16 pm


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You can sugar coat this atlantic effort all you want. Did it help with stream rehab yes. ut it is a failure and we need to move on with species tthat can survive in the lake and streams rivers.


Merry Xmas all

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canadadude
Posted: Dec 19, 2017 - 09:23 am


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My concern is the effect this Atlantic program has on Steelhead populations, the MNR spent 1 million dollars on a fish lift at Norval, but it only lifts Atlantics, so it really lifts nothing. Steelhead are still stopped dead in their tracks, and transfers to the upper tribs have been lowered so numbers of trout in the Credit are dropping. Although a lot of this is due to political influence of other user groups, I still feel the Atlantic program is being used as a barrier to enhance Steelhead populations. The Credit has the potential today to be one of the best Steelhead fisheries in Ontario.

My new concern is the shift of the Atlantic program to the Ganaraska, could this spell the end for natural Chinnock and Steelhead from spawning in that system. If any successfull Atlantic reproduction is seen in the system, I'm worried this could spell the end for Chinnock, and limit trout using the system for reproduction.

The Saint Mary's river is really the only great lakes river that has a decent run of Atlantics and it has taken Univerisity and 30yrs to establish this. They also admit the actual amount of natural survival is very low, and the only reason the run continues is due to stocking. This program has biologists and students doing studies on a continual basis and they still have not solved a natural reproducing self sustaining population. I do think this a very good program due to the fact it is such a great learning tool for the Biologists and the students, this is how perhaps a self sustaining population may be introduced in the future. However our willy nilly approach of just dumping fish into the river and hoping maybe god will suddenly give us a healthy Atlantic population is ridiculous at best.

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Richard S
Posted: Dec 20, 2017 - 11:10 am


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QUOTE (Longshank @ Dec 18, 2017 - 02:16 pm)
You can sugar coat this atlantic effort all you want. Did it help with stream rehab    yes. ut it is a failure and we need to move on with species tthat can survive in the lake and streams rivers.


Merry Xmas all 
 

Good luck with that since part of the MNR's mandate is to re-establish native species, plus its no secret that the higher ups with in the MNR hate salmon and steelhead. I should also mention that OFAH and MNR think that steelhead and browns are in direct competition with the Atlantic's. Haven't you ever wondered why the MNR wants to lift to no kill on brown trout on the upper credit? Plain and simple, the MNR doesn't give a $hit about introduced or naturalized species and they have basically left it up to the user groups to stock and maintain the runs based on the stocking numbers the MNR lays out, and that also includes transferred fish.

Rich.

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Longshank
Posted: Dec 21, 2017 - 10:55 am


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We are on the same page after all. you confused me with an earlier reply.

if u care to check I have outlined numerous concerns re. the atlantic program over the past decade and got bashed multible times by doing same.

Having a fishery management background helps in my thought processes.
and it,s not just mnrf but political as well. Think elite.

Anyway, enough said on this one again for me

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Tommy_Niagara
Posted: Dec 27, 2017 - 07:57 am


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Bring back the cohos instead.

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enslow
Posted: Dec 27, 2017 - 12:41 pm


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I worked for the MNR raising Atlantic's and Chinook and coho before the Atlantic salmon program started and after it was up and running I was raising Atlantic's with Fleming college.

I currently do not work with Atlantic's anymore but I think from reading all the posts as well as Darryl's article there is alot of misinformation out there regarding the program so it will be hard for anyone to put the appropriate value on the program.

What I would first like to point out is the program itself differs from all others within the fish culture section because the bulk of it is funded from outside organizations. Therefore some of the arguments posted don't hold water as well as Darryl's ( has never supported anything except Chinook and coho stocking and always compares apples to oranges to emphasize his point)

There are 2 many uniformed statements within the article and the posts to cover but I would suggest not picking a bias persons article and running with it. I know there are lots of greats things that have come from the program and I also realize that it has it's down side.

In my personal opinion the MNR has focused so much on stocking of salmon and trout that I think it is too far behind culture methods in regards to other species that stocking as a fisheries management tool is becoming obsolete and its becoming more and more of a put grow and take fishery



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Longshank
Posted: Dec 27, 2017 - 03:17 pm


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let\s talk about the specific benefits to date then

the total cost

the list of the sponsors and how much

In fact lake o is the perfect waterbody for a put and take fishery.

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enslow
Posted: Dec 27, 2017 - 06:49 pm


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I told myself not to post anything..... internet trolls always already know everything!

Hey longshank I looked up niagara fishing services and are you seriously saying that you have had an unbiased opinion or more likely you only did enough research to support what you want to see happen in lake Ontario....more Chinook and coho and steelhead blah blah


I have learned my lesson and will not jump in on anymore of these discussions

I retract all of my statements and will allow you gentlemen to discuss it properly


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Knuguy
Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 09:21 am


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So there MAY be 2 sides to this story but we are not to hear about it----just broad hints??

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Longshank
Posted: Dec 28, 2017 - 03:02 pm


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QUOTE (enslow @ Dec 27, 2017 - 06:49 pm)
I told myself not to post anything..... internet trolls always already know everything!

Hey longshank I looked up niagara fishing services and are you seriously saying that you have had an unbiased opinion or more likely you only did enough research to support what you want to see happen in lake Ontario....more Chinook and coho and steelhead blah blah


I have learned my lesson and will not jump in on anymore of these discussions

I retract all of my statements and will allow you gentlemen to discuss it properly

If you propose some comments and back them up by stating you worked in a hatchery. fine.



I only asked you to support your comments.

don't get offended just cause I do not agree with you.

as for being an internet troll...... that young fellow is an insult but I got bigger shoulders than you.

Don't research my business, research all my 398 comments on Atlantics and why they would fail

I am all for a viable fishery for all, but not a pipedream

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