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> New Regs 2013, 2 Rainbow Trout Limit
backwoodsmanbob
Posted: Mar 20, 2013 - 04:25 pm


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Yes I do remember, you were with your dad. Hope all is good with you guys and nice to see you are still involved. Yeah the group is much smaller and we started that tradition back in 1979. PM me if you are going out.

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Longshank
Posted: Mar 21, 2013 - 10:00 am


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This should hve never turned out to be a contst between shore anglers and charter boats.......but did to some extent and figured it might just do that.

it would seem that some of you think "we" are taking away "your" fish....that again tells me you have very litttle knowledge of just how many fish there are out in the lake.

it's irrelevant though to the main messgae of managing the fishery.

if you read the Ministers response, which of course was drafted by not him at all,

the response itself is flawed.

so, a couple of questions.

what is the carrying pacity of fish for lake O?

what is the actual, not surmised status of baitfish in the lake

what strain of bows is Ontario stocking.........

how many strains are in the lake and what we catch are primarily NYS fish which does not impact your riveres as they migrate back to home waters.

Where is the data to support the claims that 10 years ago the thought was 4 % natural reproduction and now it suddenly jumped to 60-80 %.really? plus as little as 10 years ago, this was considered a put and take fishery.

It only exists due to efforts of local clubs and volunteers doing everyting from egg collection to rearing to trucking out to further clubs that do penning projects to allow imprinting before release.

These folks all need a huge TY.

where is MNR here? that's their mandate

Just because you don't eat the fish out of the lake should not have anything to do with a reduction.

And as BWB mentioned , yes A. Pope did a great number on hunters, Kerrio did the same

I thought I was done with this and wil be soon enough, but i see there is work to be done


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king killer
Posted: Mar 21, 2013 - 11:22 am


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Longshank
i am for keeping fisheries good and healthy.i eat an ton of fish just not from lake O. i have no problem with people who do! (personal choice). I understand our ministry makes poor decisions often in managing our resources and seldom has data to back new regs. But on this decision i understand it as they are leveling the playing field IMO. River guys can take 2, americans 3agg. To me its just bein leveled out. Yes i understand this opens the door to more reg changes, although the door has been opened for a while and we always seem to be losing oppurtunities. U can stil take 5 fish anyway! Take more 3yr
i old kings there better eating anyway JMO! 90% of anglers will agree with me as this limit is outdated IMO!

thanks for the discussion

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Longshank
Posted: Mar 21, 2013 - 12:42 pm


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King Killer......hwo many times have I stated i would be fine with a 3 fish aggreagate limit instead of 5 in order to level the playing field.

must be a dozen times.

However........please understand that NY has a 3 fish limit DAILY!

we do not...............so not a level playning field at all.

I asked for a 2 day possesion limit for lake Ontario for folks flying in from God knows where and that fish for 2 to 5 days., but are currently allowed to keep

5 fish total if they fish 1 day or 5

If they fished NY waters for 5 days they can keep

3 day 1 and another 3 day 2 and so on.understand?

that it not a level playing field at all.

And for sure I feel like a beat up salmon swimming upstream in a vey strong current as the vast majority have agreed to endorse the new regs.

That does not make them correct though

I began this post to help folks realize how ministerial processes are flawed.

Certainly did not expect the majority to agree with me either

I respect most who have taken the time to air their views as well with some well thought out viewpoints.

I am also a shore fisherman.......in fact I fish all species and do not put one above another and never will.

Realize this....MNR always has a hidden agenda...always, count on it

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king killer
Posted: Mar 21, 2013 - 01:32 pm


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5 salmonoids is plenty of fish to bring home for a trip. i highly doubt u will lose business over these regs. steelhead can reproduce multiple times and our a beautiful which we all enjoy. not to mention u have the option to take 3 kings on top of your 2 bows. i just dont see the issue here. imagine everyone on a river being able to keep 5 steelhead! ive seen it its not pretty. i need to ask how many steelhead do u kill a year chartering? your earning a living off of this and should be happy we have fish out there to catch!

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Longshank
Posted: Mar 21, 2013 - 02:55 pm


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QUOTE (king killer @ March 21, 2013 - 01:32 pm)
5 salmonoids is plenty of fish to bring home for a trip. i highly doubt u will lose business over these regs. steelhead can reproduce multiple times and our a beautiful which we all enjoy. not to mention u have the option to take 3 kings on top of your 2 bows. i just dont see the issue here. imagine everyone on a river being able to keep 5 steelhead! ive seen it its not pretty. i need to ask how many steelhead do u kill a year chartering? your earning a living off of this and should be happy we have fish out there to catch!

I wanted a total limit.aggregate of 3 fish (not 5)...crikey..are people not reading!

That's 2 less than the current regs

3 fish aggregate, just like the US

3 3 3 3 3

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king killer
Posted: Mar 21, 2013 - 04:03 pm


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Well its 2 and will be til they cut it to 1. What's the difference ?if u want to take 3 fish kill a king or a coho! U have an option here 2 large rainbows is plenty 8out of 10 agree and accept this change. U say there r no wild fish? Do u mean there's no ntural reproduction or just saying man put steelhead in lake O to begin with so they r not wild? If your boat takes 300 bows a year u can now only take 120. Ur telling me there's no chance any of those 180 bows will go up a river. This has to have a positive impact on river fishing. I know u might say there gonna die anyway if u release them if that's the case then that's plain arrogance on anybodys part who kills a fish for the sake of a fight.

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Longshank
Posted: Mar 21, 2013 - 05:02 pm


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NO, I meant 3 fish aggrgate period..cobination of bows and kings

eg 2 K and 1 bow or 2 bows and 1 king or 3 kings and or 3 bows.

Neither of those scenarios will cripple the fish. It's just that we cannot get salmon on every outing and 3 would seem reasonable to me.

So a 40% cutback on bows instead of 60%

But, you should also consider that no matter what, not all those fish will make it back to the rivers,,simply just not true, there will be mortality plus not just charters, but recreational fishermen will toss back smaller bows until they get 2 decent keepers, so chance of further mortality.almost a given at a certain time of the year. (BYW.read my post on Concern of Tourney fishing please)

I certainly cannot dispute that keeping less fish on the lake will most likely help increase numbers getting back to rivers....that's no brainer. The question is what rivers will they go back to?

The addtional question not yet asked is, how many "naturals can any given river/stream produce?" There is very little suitable spawning area for mature fish and i am all in favor of further river/strem cleanup/restoration etc. you know what I mean

As for wild fish.yes, I do not consider natural reproducers to be "wild fish".

We don't call natural whitefish in Simcoe "wild WF" as they are a different strain than the originals that were there.

But I suppose that is a question of semantics if you like.

Finally as a charter, I saw an opportunity to do something I love doing and also get other people out to enjoy a world class fishery that they would otherwise be unable to take part of. if you think we/ or I should say I make a living from this, think again......we work for minumum wage at best once all the costs and hours are put into the hat. Do I make dollars from what I do. of course, but I invested alot to do that as well

Whether youbelieve it or not, I do it purely for pleasure now...to take kids out and see them get thei first ever salmon or bow..some with families that cannot afford a boat. My client base ar all wonderfull people and most are now my friends.some from all over the world. That's the end reward!

I also donate a least 5 outings per year.

2 to this site
1 for local seniors
1 to the rotary club
1 "walk on every year".........just a surprise to people I just meet and strike up a converstaion and off we go

So, I don't want to be grouped into the "killing crowd" as some have done. That is just not me, but do I kill fish..absolutely.well my clients do and they enjoy every meal and surprise, they are all well and healthy

Look, it's been a great discussion and I learned some things yet again, as I do every time I hit the water. to stop learning is to stop living.

I tried to point out some flaws in the approach MNR was taking, I still believe i did that. I also think it's time we said, enough is enough, no more cutbacks.how about a radical thought of an increase instead. In 5 years we will have to hire attorneyes to interpret the Regs,

I hope I answered your questions king killer and the rest of you as well. I'm not trying tobe arrogant, but I do know my waters very well here and I know what I see. That is ireffutable.




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king killer
Posted: Mar 23, 2013 - 09:22 am


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Longshank
I do not doubt your character,intentions,knowledge, and appreciate your contributions and opinions if I agree with them or not. (I do agree with most of what u say)

Most questions I ask I know the anwsers to but want others to be in formed as well. I spend a lot of time on lake O and enjoy it! Hopefully things will b good for a long time! Time will tell!


Thanx for the discussion guys

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