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> Fishing licenses.., Choose one.
 
Which license option would you choose??
1. No I wouldn't pay more. [ 22 ]  [68.75%]
2. Yes I'd pay more. [ 10 ]  [31.25%]
Total Votes: 32
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fishmagnet
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 01:28 pm


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QUOTE (Backwater @ Jan 30, 2020 - 12:40 pm)
QUOTE (Limacharley @ Jan 30, 2020 - 09:48 am)
You folks who wouldn't mind to pay more sure trust the government.

Interesting. That's one way to look at it.

One could also say that people who don't want to pay more than the current rate (what, .08 cents a day?) are entitled Leftists who expect something for (next to) nothing, but I doubt that's the case. Its probably the exact opposite in reality. See what I mean? Its more than likely that the person with the other opinion wants the same thing as you, and just sees a different path to get there. We all want fish stocks to thrive.

The bottom line is, something has to give. Can we support the current daily fish limits with 38 million Canadians? How about 50 million Canadians. 100 million? At what point does the human population pressure the fish stocks past a critical level, and what should we do about it? And indeed, so many other factors flow into this; technological advancements which allow higher harvest rates, environmental changes, disease etc etc.

I think what some of the commenters are saying here is that IF the government was diligent with the allocation of licensing fees towards increased resources in hatchery and stocking programs, it may be part of a solution. Can we trust the government to do so? That's another question. But for now, that's the system of management we are largely relying on for fisheries management so its entirely reasonable for anglers to look there for potential solutions. That doesn't mean they inherently lick the boot of Big Brother. I have a Samsung phone but that doesn't mean I "sure do trust all foreign tech companies". Life is nuanced.

What's it worth to me to be able to access any of the thousands of lakes in the province? Way more than a dime a day. Am I okay with a nebulous tax grab where the money doesn't go the hatcheries? Nope. Of course not. The question posed is so unintentionally loaded that for me at least, its nigh impossible to answer. But, its a good question and thanks for posting it.

Is this Justin Trudeau???

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fishmagnet
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 02:07 pm


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Sorry I see it differently..
I rarely ever take fish home to eat, it's mainly catch and release for me and my family..We always follow all the rules and always buy our licenses even if some people in the house don't go fishing at all.
I feel like money is miss spent just like the rest of the government does with our taxes..
We support all types of charities , sports groups when we can but at the end of the day there just isn't enough to go around..we always take food with us to eat but we always have to hit Tim's in the morning and on the way home...
Either way the governing bodies will find a way to get more money out of this..

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maitlandman
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 02:23 pm


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Backwater puts forward several valid points to consider.

Those of us just scraping by are definitely very fortunate that the structure here is not like England or Ireland.. id be lucky to fish once a month or at all under those circumstances.

I would suggest that the complacent idea of an infinite resource and the feeling of entitlement that comes with it would be a good place to start.

I am NOT taking issue with ANYONE who pays into the system and obeys current catch/keep regulations because they enjoy eating fish, that is the individuals prerogative, I just question personally how much any of us truly need/rely on sport fish as food to sustain ourselves in this day and age.
As was pointed out earlier, factoring in daily limits and costs associated with the sport equals an expensive meal in most cases.
Also, remember those books you used to get at the beer store listing contaminants and recommended consumption?
Those are indication enough as to the fragility and already compromised state of the resource (especially in southern ontario) as far as im concerned.

A series of different factors contribute to the demise of any sport fishery and stocking became a band aid solution out of necessity in the first place.

Volume of participants, over harvesting, poor morality rates related to catch and release practices, watershed contamination via human development/encroachment, vast field tiling province wide (in the case of steelhead rivers at least), commercial fisheries on the great lakes, salinity increases throughout urban/semi urban watersheds, invasive species are just some examples and only the tip of the iceberg.
All the above and much more is what made stocking necessary and us as anglers reliant on it in the first place.

The general degradation of all natural resources in the name of advancement and convenience has been going on at a rapidly increasing pace since the concept of implementing licensing and catch limits was in its infancy, let alone the plan to combat the losses through stocking being put in practice.
Not much relative adjustment/correction has occurred to keep up since.

With regard to reinvestment of license costs into stocking - maybe if the government reassessed/redeployed some of the finances associated with long outdated stocking practices in Ontario we'd be in a better position and potentially not need to propose increases in order to maintain current status quo numbers....check out the great lakes basin report Jan. 2020 and read Darryl Choronzey's article re: atlantic salmon as just 1 example.

Either way, the reality of requiring and relying on funding and hatchery reared fish to sustain populations in a freshwater paradise like Ontario is a sad paradox in the first place and seems to suggest to me at least that we are well past the critical point mentioned by Blackwater earlier.



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WILSON
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 02:43 pm


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I would not pay more, they don't stock lakes down my way and I'm not going to travel hrs on end just to fish a stocked lake, would benefit only the ppl in those areas, if the price goes up it goes up for everyone.

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maitlandman
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 02:51 pm


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If possible could someone clarify the exact percentage of money generated from licensing that is currently allocated specifically to stocking/hatcheries by the government?

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Winterfisher
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 03:24 pm


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Right now 16% of you license goes to stocking.

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Backwater
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 05:30 pm


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[/QUOTE]
Is this Justin Trudeau???
[/QUOTE]

I'm so sorry. I mistakenly thought you posted this poll with the idea of encouraging polite and productive discourse. I didn't realize the extent of your input would be limited to a comment so disconnected from the contents of my post. And frankly, so childish.

Maybe take a pause, and read what I've said again. Ironically, I'm suggesting the very Conservative notion that there is a cost associated with accessing resources. You pay to play. You are espousing a very Liberal notion that you are entitled to the Public Good. Even worse, you don' even want to pay for it.

How we address these costs is certainly up for discussion; we can keep the status quo and deplete every small lake within a day's drive of the GTA. We can privatize fisheries management and charge super-high fees for the right to "rent" access to a small access point, such as is the case in the UK. Or we can augment and/or hold accountable the taxes currently engaged in wildlife stewardship.

Please don't be hysterical with name-calling and strawmanning in order to shut down conversation. That's another tactic of the modern left which is distasteful. For a guy calling me "Trudeau" you're acting somewhat to the left of Chairman Mao




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fishmagnet
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 06:33 pm


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QUOTE (Backwater @ Jan 30, 2020 - 05:30 pm)
[/QUOTE]
Is this Justin Trudeau???
[/QUOTE]

I'm so sorry. I mistakenly thought you posted this poll with the idea of encouraging polite and productive discourse. I didn't realize the extent of your input would be limited to a comment so disconnected from the contents of my post. And frankly, so childish.

Maybe take a pause, and read what I've said again. Ironically, I'm suggesting the very Conservative notion that there is a cost associated with accessing resources. You pay to play. You are espousing a very Liberal notion that you are entitled to the Public Good. Even worse, you don' even want to pay for it.

How we address these costs is certainly up for discussion; we can keep the status quo and deplete every small lake within a day's drive of the GTA. We can privatize fisheries management and charge super-high fees for the right to "rent" access to a small access point, such as is the case in the UK. Or we can augment and/or hold accountable the taxes currently engaged in wildlife stewardship.

Please don't be hysterical with name-calling and strawmanning in order to shut down conversation. That's another tactic of the modern left which is distasteful. For a guy calling me "Trudeau" you're acting somewhat to the left of Chairman Mao

I'm sorry my attempt at some humor came at your expense..
Please continue to debate the discussion...
Everyone has their own opinions and they are free to voice them..

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Backwater
Posted on Jan 30, 2020 - 07:07 pm


Alevin
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Mao [/QUOTE]
I'm sorry my attempt at some humor came at your expense..
Please continue to debate the discussion...
Everyone has their own opinions and they are free to voice them.. [/QUOTE]


That's very gracious of you, thanks very much. It's easy to get caught up in a debate (it happens to me too) so I appreciate that.

This post has been edited by Backwater on Jan 31, 2020 - 07:02 am

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Murf123
Posted on Jan 31, 2020 - 09:49 am


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Id pay more cuz it sounds like some ppl won't. It would help clear areas out. And allow fishermen more availability. Keep the cheapskates home👍.. Maybe buy smaller boat and cheaper tackle......

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Limacharley
Posted on Jan 31, 2020 - 10:56 am


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It just takes the stroke of a pen from government officials to re-direct our fees to other more pressing provincial concerns. That's why I refuse to offer to pay more.

Ontarians have fantastic fishing opportunities already, in every corner of this province.

If you don't believe there's enough fish in your neck of the woods, fundraise, start a hatchery and by all means start stocking more lakes.

I'm not giving Ford, Wynne or anyone else more money. This province has been mismanaged for decades: education and hydro are prime examples.

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Putaforkinya
Posted on Jan 31, 2020 - 08:09 pm


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There's not alot I would put my hand up to pay more for. But for fishing yes I would. We have some of the best fisheries in the world and certain precautions must be taken to keep it that way then I'm all for it.

Keep in mind that's not just to up it for the fact of upping it, I would want to see what it was going towards. If it's going to hatcheries and stocking then yes I'm all for it. If the government says hey people love fishing I'll bet we can charge more then I say they can shove it.

Also would be fine if they just raised fines to help pay for the hatcheries

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rayray89
Posted on Jan 31, 2020 - 10:11 pm


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QUOTE (Murf123 @ Jan 31, 2020 - 09:49 am)
Id pay more cuz it sounds like some ppl won't. It would help clear areas out. And allow fishermen more availability. Keep the cheapskates home👍.. Maybe buy smaller boat and cheaper tackle......

Hmmmm

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Backwater
Posted on Jan 31, 2020 - 11:21 pm


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Civil discourse sure is hard to find these days.

This post has been edited by Backwater on Feb 01, 2020 - 05:57 am

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