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> Number of fish above 46cm
Fisherman
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 - 08:09 pm


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Well you said let it rain upon you. I've gone to lake Nippissing over 30 years and when we started, you could and did catch keeper walleye, had a feed and were happy. As the years went by, lower limits, slot sizes, and now a real lack of keepers makes me say, why bother. Sure we can go and catch perch, I can do that at home. I can also invite a bunch of guys over and we can spend a weekend in the garage, I'll even turn the heat off. "Some" people deny the fact where the keepers go, but you just can't deny it forever. And as long as there's no hard core regulating enforcement, you might as well just feed the cormorants.

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WTFish
Posted: Mar 24, 2019 - 09:45 pm


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No inland lake can support a commercial fishery in the long term, Nipissing is no exception.

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Chuck Enwinde
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 01:13 am


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I don't think a few local hardcore anglers are a better representation of the health of the fishery than the countless hours put in by operators and their clients. The idea that the clients should just stay away won't help anything - they're not the problem. I fish all over and what happens at Nip is not at all normal in my experience. I know of no other place (with big fish potential) where there are 50 14-17" for every 1 18-30".

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ldub
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 05:30 am


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QUOTE (WTFish @ Mar 24, 2019 - 09:45 pm)
No inland lake can support a commercial fishery in the long term, Nipissing is no exception.

Exactly, there is no long term solution, without tackling or even discussing the single largest issue effecting the population.

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Northhunter
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 07:01 am


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Chuck.. it's not a "few". The overwhelming majority don't post here.. probably don't even visit the board.

If you know anybody who fishes the "Top 50" tournaments ask them what they catch in the cabbage in June. Cuz it ain't just pike.

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porkpie
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 07:32 am


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Yeah, Iíve put many many miles on Nippissing in the boat over the years, in many areas with many presentations. I donít live around the corner, but our success ratio is very high when visiting, with numbers I wonít even mention on here. We donít go to catch keepers. By the end of the week we have enough 12 inch perch fillets to fill a large bag for a fish fry. We go to catch ridiculous numbers of walleye and enjoy the scenery of a beautiful lake. That and all the other bonus species. Our numbers have sometimes been 100/1 for keeper walleye. Sometimes they are less than that but Iíd average 100/1. Anyone, local or otherwise, hardcore or not so much that doesnít acknowledge there is a problem on Nippissing is fooling themselves or others. Sorry fellas, I get what your saying as I fish Erie and there are ways to target larger fish and sometimes itís hard to get past the hungry 16ís. I know that legal fish are there to be caught on Nippissing but the population is definitely not balanced. I believe there is probably little commercial enforcement, and thatís a problem!

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Grumpa
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 09:38 am


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Doesn't look like I'm winning many converts here. Sooo, just one last post and I won't labour the discussion further. I'll let the commercial fishing detractors rule the day.
I've fished Nipissing for 50 years (started in 1970). My mothers family owned a lodge on the lake 40 years before that. I've lived on the lake for some time now and fish it heavy (recreationally), year round. I've also participated on both sides of the fishing equation (commercial fishing plus time with the MNR many years ago). So I hope I have a balanced perspective on the discussion. I continue to try to look at both sides.
Commercial fishing has existed on lake Nipissing for virtually...ever. Nothing has changed there (likely never will)...other then mutually agreed commercial harvest quotas have been lowered in recent years, nets adjusted, seasons shortened...those changes were willingly implemented in step with the most recent recreational harvest restrictions.
But it may be helpful to the discussion to remember what the MNR said in the 2014 'Lake Management Plan'...the framework being used for the lake's current walleye recovery effort.
The MNR stated 'harvest in the recreational fishery continues to increase due to angler success and increased participation'.
Early in the discussion 'Fisherman' talked about what it was like fishing Nipissing 30 years ago...I to remember those todays fondly. But over those 30 years travel time to reach the lake from Toronto has declined from nearly 4 hours to 3. Fishing boats have become 300 horsepower fishing factories that can reach any part of the lake in minutes...fishfinders have pinpoint GPS, hydrographic contour mapping, fish recognition and 3D bottom structure imagining (I use to try and find mid lake walleye structure by line of sight reckoning 30 years ago).
Ice fishermen have access to super sensitive dual operation flashers and underwater cameras. I won't even try to estimate the impact that the proliferation of 6 & 8 man overnight fishing condos have had on the lake's icefishing pressure and intensity. Not to mention the improvements in fishing lines, hooks, reels and poles over that time frame.
Advanced angling technology and equipment has benefited anglers and improved fishing success on every body of water...that's true. But Nipissing is somewhat special in the fact that it gets consistent angling pressure...every year...year round...pretty much guaranteed.
When I lived on Lake Erie the icefishing season was often short...possibly didn't even happen for several years in succession. Being a large popular lake within a 3 hour epicentre of the largest city in Canada...puts unique angling pressure on this particular body of water.
Angling pressure and success has to be part of the discussion as well...the commercial fishing boogeyman isn't the only issue affecting Nipissing over the last 30 years.
That's it for my input on the subject.
To everyone that continues to love and fish Nipissing, no matter what's being said...good luck, and best wishes for the coming open water season.

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Longshank
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 09:45 am


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We can chose to remain positive and rely on the vast amounts of reports emerging year after year indicating that this fishery is not rebounding as it should be. And keep waiting until the numbers possibly do make that rebound


As with any other "plan" I for one do not see the problem with challenging the information which consistently identifies a serious gap in being able to properly summarize annual commercial catch rates.

I asked a question some time ago on what the size of walleye can make it through a 3.75 inch gill net. I received no answers.....none. Since then , I have read numerous reports/results of other walleye fisheries that have been stressed over the years and have recovered. The most recent was on Eagle lake, where a slot size was introduced for walleye above 46 cm.....allowing the catch to be 14-17 plus inches (4 fish) and now that fishery has rebounded in spades, since the primary larger spawners are released...

this is the exact opposite for Nipissing and imo , there is a very clear reason for that

Yes, we can sit and let this plan go through its tenure and even if it does show a stabilzation of fish or an increase..then my fear tells me that the only real increase in harvest will go to the commercial operation, not the recreational angler

So, sorry, that I do not agree with many of you, but that's the way I see it unfortunately.


I know we beat this around every year and I think that is a good thing...call it Democracy

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CousinHippy
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 10:14 am


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When I spend a few hundred bucks for a few days fishing with an operator I would much rather cpr 50x17"ers than bring home the only 2 fish I caught... I can sit around and not catch fish on Simcoe 5 mins outside my door... If I'm paying and traveling to catch fish I want to catch fish and the operators are excellent at putting you on fish... So again as it has been stated before people like myself that will come from hours away to stay in a bungalow one weekend a year likely aren't the best to guage how the keepers are keeping as much as somebody local who fishes year round in different locations. I hope I didn't say anything to set anyone off and turn this discussion south because a few times it could have and has come back unlike other conversations of this nature. Cheers and tight line all!

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WTFish
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 11:23 am


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QUOTE (Grumpa @ Mar 25, 2019 - 09:38 am)
I won't even try to estimate the impact that the proliferation of 6 & 8 man overnight fishing condos have had on the lake's icefishing pressure and intensity.

Since the current limit got implemented I'd estimate that impact as pretty close to zero since essentially 99% of fish are under the legal limit.

"5 short years" aren't actually that short for a fish to grow. We know the small ones are there and were there when the plan started. Not like they started from zero.

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kenster
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 01:15 pm


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Regarding Grumps opinions I would like to add a couple of my own.

You have mentioned that Commercial has never changed and this is not true.First off they now have the same technology you speak of but as an angler we cannot make the walleye bite or keep them.
Also the Mnr statement of an increased harvest ratio.How can that be possible if we are throwing them back into the lake? I would think less guys are going out at all because of that and today's youth more likely to stay home on the internet.Most anglers do not go very often and lots only fish winter.
Commercial also changed when Mpp Smith doled out a 2 mil cheque for a processing plant and opened up sales to restaurants,waterfront and other establishments all the while cutting angler limits.Kind of hypocritical and I don't think we should endorse this behavior, esp Waste

All said I do get where your coming from and efforts are being made on both sides.



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Chuck Enwinde
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 02:52 pm


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QUOTE (Grumpa @ Mar 25, 2019 - 10:38 am)
Doesn't look like I'm winning many converts here. Sooo, just one last post and I won't labour the discussion further. I'll let the commercial fishing detractors rule the day.
I've fished Nipissing for 50 years (started in 1970). My mothers family owned a lodge on the lake 40 years before that. I've lived on the lake for some time now and fish it heavy (recreationally), year round. I've also participated on both sides of the fishing equation (commercial fishing plus time with the MNR many years ago). So I hope I have a balanced perspective on the discussion. I continue to try to look at both sides.
Commercial fishing has existed on lake Nipissing for virtually...ever. Nothing has changed there (likely never will)...other then mutually agreed commercial harvest quotas have been lowered in recent years, nets adjusted, seasons shortened...those changes were willingly implemented in step with the most recent recreational harvest restrictions.
But it may be helpful to the discussion to remember what the MNR said in the 2014 'Lake Management Plan'...the framework being used for the lake's current walleye recovery effort.
The MNR stated 'harvest in the recreational fishery continues to increase due to angler success and increased participation'.
Early in the discussion 'Fisherman' talked about what it was like fishing Nipissing 30 years ago...I to remember those todays fondly. But over those 30 years travel time to reach the lake from Toronto has declined from nearly 4 hours to 3. Fishing boats have become 300 horsepower fishing factories that can reach any part of the lake in minutes...fishfinders have pinpoint GPS, hydrographic contour mapping, fish recognition and 3D bottom structure imagining (I use to try and find mid lake walleye structure by line of sight 30 years ago).
Ice fishermen have access to super sensitive dual operation flashers and underwater cameras. I won't even try to estimate the impact that the proliferation of 6 & 8 man overnight fishing condos have had on the lake's icefishing pressure and intensity. Not to mention the improvements in fishing lines, reels and poles over the that time frame.
Advanced angling technology and equipment has benefited anglers and improved fishing success on every body of water...that's true. But Nipissing is somewhat special in the fact that it gets consistent angling pressure...every year...year round...pretty much guaranteed.
When I lived on Lake Erie the icefishing season was often short...possibly didn't even happen for several years in succession. Being a large popular lake within a 3 hour epicentre of the largest city in Canada...puts unique angling pressure on this particular body of water.
Angling pressure and success has to be part of the discussion as well...the commercial fishing boogeyman isn't the only issue affecting Nipissing over the last 30 years.
That's it for my input on the subject.
To everyone that continues to love and fish Nipissing, no matter what's being said...good luck, and best wishes for the coming open water season.

You might not win many converts Grumpa but there is no denying the value your insights bring to the discussion so thanks for taking the time.

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Neil
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 03:17 pm


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My wife and I also decided to not harvest any walleye once the change was made to 18.1" and up. I just cannot bring myself to harvest a prime breading size. We may have targeted walleye 5 times in the last 5 years.
My family started going to Nipissing 85 years ago. It was head West on Lakeshore and turn left at Young Street back then. My grandfather said it took 10 hours to get there from Hamilton.

I have been going up all my life which will be 60 years this year. The place is in my blood.
My wife and I bought in 2011 and before that were renting for ten weeks a year for 8 years or so. Before that it was always rent for a month.

As for the current slot size I wonder if the MNRF are not trying to take the sports fisher men and women out of the equation so if the walleye are wiped out AGAIN it cannot be blamed on them or the sport fisher man / woman. The walleye fishery is pretty much a catch and release fishery now.

I also agree that when treaties were signed fishing methods were a lot different and that fish caught were to feed the family / community. Not to sell.

I hope I am wrong but I do wonder if we won't all be disappointed with the results of the management plan in another 5 years.

Neil

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ldub
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 03:47 pm


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Whatever the plan is designed to achieve, a little bit of honesty from the the government we all fund would be nice.

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Northhunter
Posted: Mar 25, 2019 - 06:08 pm


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Re; recreational harvest.. as little as it might appear to be right now, it will still increase with angler pressure and success. It was reported in the past that there were 1000 commercial hut licenses for Nip. It's a 10 week season. Say each bungalow gives up 1 keeper a week (which isn't out of the equation.. some guys come up and catch 2 or 3). That's 10,000 18"+ fish removed from the equation.. that ain't none or zero. Then here's the sea of "local" huts and freelance fishing that takes place. When we fished with Hyatt's old operation this year we were in a cluster of 5 huts out from the channel to Callander Bay. We were vastly outnumbered by privately owned permanent huts. We could see Deepwater Pt. and the usual city was still out there.

I've said this before. If the limit was left @ 4 (or even 2) under 40cm I think this would be a much different discussion.

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